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Gun Lawyer Episode 45 Transcript
gun, kids, gun rights, firearm, lawyer, hunting, people, issued, vaccinated, push, seized, parents, new jersey, law, school, person, rights, principal, drawing, resource officer
Evan Nappen, Speaker 3
Evan Nappen 00:20
I’m Evan Nappen, and welcome to Gun Lawyer. I want to follow up from our last podcast because when we put two and two together about the plan to take our gun rights, it has really taken off through the media. As you may recall, I realized when we had this push to put unvaccinated persons on the No Fly List, while simultaneously seeing a push for what is called No Fly-No Buy to stop people on the No Fly List from having guns, it seemed to be pretty obvious what their intention is and that is to take away gun rights from all unvaccinated persons. In pointing this out, it has brought a lot of awareness to this subject so that we can fight these bills and these proposals on both fronts. The unvaccinated going on the No Fly List and the No Fly-No Buy proposals because we our liberty and our freedom is at stake. What is really interesting, though, is some of the follow up and what happened after the podcast released. I would like to thank AmmoLand for putting out a great article with the podcast into their wonderful news feed. If you do not subscribe to AmmoLand and get their daily news feed and if you are interested in firearms and guns, you are missing out. It is free. Sign up to get AmmoLand’s daily. They have great articles.
Evan Nappen 02:13
I really want to do a great shout out to Jared Yanis of Guns and Gadgets. Jared produced a wonderful YouTube presentation called “Is This Their Secret Plan to Disarm Americans?!” Jared did a wonderful job, and I am really happy with what he did to bring greater awareness to this. He also was very professional and gave credit to Gun Lawyer on this. So, check out that YouTube video on Guns and Gadgets. He has already got almost 160,000 views of that video, and it has been like wildfire. So many people have gotten in touch with me and other media and what have you. It is really important that this is out there so people recognize the threat. Otherwise, these apparatchiks from the Obama administration who are pushing this could have gotten away with this much, much easier. No one says they won’t still get away with it. But at least there is an awareness about it.
Evan Nappen 03:34
Following up on this, there is some really interesting things. Because there is a little bit of lag time from when we produce a podcast to it actually getting out to our great listeners, after the podcast I saw that there is an actual bill in Congress (HR 4980) based upon the proposal by Juliette Kayyem. She was the former Obama official (Assistant Secretary for Homeland Security) who put forward that article (“Unvaccinated People Need to Bear the Burden”) in The Atlantic magazine. All of this is coordinated I Page – 2 – of 7
am sure. HR 4980 is to pass a law to mandate that those who fly be vaccinated. Therefore, the unvaccinated would be on the No Fly List.
Evan Nappen 04:18
So, there actually is a bill that was filed on the sixth of August (HR4980). So it is very, very recent. Based on our lag time on what we could know at the time we did the podcast, this surfaced online so we could see what they filed. They are already taking the steps to implement their plan, and it is based on these two factors that once they are combined, ends up harming our Second Amendment rights. Looking further into it recently, within the last few days, Biden was questioned about putting folks on the No Fly List. They are apparently considering that as well. I do not know if he could do it by Executive Order. It may just take a law; who knows they seem pretty willing to abuse their power.
Evan Nappen 05:29
But what I want to tell you is if you think this is a far-fetched idea, that folks who are unvaccinated cannot fly, well, guess what? Canada announced just on Friday, that they are going to require all airline passengers to be vaccinated, as well as travelers on inner-provincial trains and cruise ships. So, Canada is already implementing it. That is part one of the two shoes that need to drop to take away our gun rights, and Canada is already implementing it. So, the U.S. obviously can try to do that, and I would not be surprised if they do. We have got to be vigilant and be aware, and that is the purpose of Gun Lawyer. It is really one of the things that I am all about and want to raise that.
Evan Nappen 06:29
I was looking more into the author of this idea here for the U.S. The real power pushing it is Juliette Kayyem, the former Obama person (Assistant Secretary for Homeland Security). She launch this in The Atlantic article, but she followed up, interestingly, with an interview on PBS radio. Of course, you know, PBS is our taxpayer-funded, left wing radio. It is not as if there is a lack of left wing radio and left wing media out there. We have to make sure that we have a government-funded, left wing media. too. Of course, we have to keep pushing that, and she is on there. But I will tell you what is really interesting, because this is the mentality of these people. She said in the interview, “We’re done waiting. And that we have to move from the carrots of luring people, talking to them about the science, and giving them extra pay lottery systems, to a system of sticks, where there will be burdens, and privileges will be denied.” This is the way these people think. Take away your right to fly, take away the “privileges and impose burdens”. What better burden, my friends, than to say you lose your Second Amendment rights and become a prohibited person if you have not been vaccinated. It aligns perfectly with their approach to this subject and our rights generally, not just in terms of guns.
Evan Nappen 08:33
It’s disgusting. Taking away the individual’s choice is outrageous. And yet that is what gun laws regularly do, isn’t it? The idea is to stop individuals who choose to have a firearm from getting one. Look, guns are not for everyone. Absolutely not. It is an important personal decision. Same with getting vaccinated. It is not for everyone. It is a personal decision. When the government gets involved in all these things that it should not even be involved in, it always makes me step back and say, Gee, it’s amazing that they will get into all this stuff where they have no business being in, and yet at the same time, drop the ball on actually doing their job on the things that they need to focus on like military Page – 3 – of 7
actions. As we are looking at what is going on around the world, that is the responsibility they have and let’s drop the ball on that. Securing our borders- that is their responsibility as well, and they dropped the ball on that.
Evan Nappen 09:44
But they will get into our liberties and our freedoms and put their nose there and start putting the thumb of oppression on us. Won’t they, no problem, huh? How about backing off our rights, back off our liberties, and do the job that you are supposed to do? Instead of making the average American pay for it with their freedom and liberty. That is the whole plan. That is their whole approach. We have to be eternally vigilant and fight this. When we come back, I am going to talk to you about back to school. Yeah, it is the back to school segment. You may say, why does that have anything to do with guns? Well, let me tell you. In practicing gun law, I have had many, many cases that come out of the schools and directly impact the gun rights of both parents and students. So, when we come back from the break, I am going to tell you all about that.
Evan Nappen 10:54
For over 30 years, Attorney Evan Nappen has seen what rotten laws do to good people. That’s why he’s dedicated his life to fighting for the rights of America’s gun owners. A fearsome courtroom litigator fighting for rights, justice, and freedom. An unrelenting gun rights spokesman, tearing away at anti-gun propaganda to expose the truth. Author of six best-selling books on gun rights, including Nappen on Gun Law, a bright orange gun law Bible that sits atop the desk of virtually every lawyer, police chief, firearms dealer, and savvy gun owner. That’s what made Evan Nappen America’s Gun Lawyer. Gun laws are designed to make you a criminal. Don’t become the innocent victim of a vicious anti-gun legal system. This is the guy you want on your side. Keep his name and number in your wallet, and hope you never have to use it. But if you live, work, or travel with a firearm, that deck is already stacked against you. You can find him on the web at EvanNappen.com or follow the link on the Gun Lawyer resource page. Evan Nappen, America’s Gun Lawyer.
Speaker 3 12:09
You’re listening to Gun Lawyer with Attorney Evan Nappen. Available wherever you get your favorite podcast.
Evan Nappen 12:25
Hey, welcome back. I want to thank all of you for listening in to Gun Lawyer and helping to protect our gun rights by doing so by raising your awareness. I would really appreciate it if you would make sure you subscribe and have your friends subscribe. As we reach more and more people, this is the voice so we can alert you to issues, all kinds of issues, and I can give advice on how to protect yourself. These are things that I have experienced firsthand, working for over 30 years as a lawyer with a focus on the area of firearm and weapons laws. I see these things that happen and I say, oh my gosh, people need to know about these ramifications. Yet, you do not ever see this in the lamestream media. They are not ever warning people about these things.
Evan Nappen 13:26 Page – 4 – of 7
When it comes to going back to school, there are issues about schools, particularly government schools, which are euphemistically called public schools. What happens here is something where you need to make sure that you have communicated with your kids and warned them about things that can happen regarding guns in school. In terms of gun rights, and even the rights of parents. A number of years ago, I had a case where a student just drew a doodle, a drawing, a cartoon of a military soldier firing a rifle at another enemy soldier. They had helmets on, It was just a little drawing by a kid of soldiers shooting each other. I don’t know as kids if any of you played war or admired those that defend our country and such. Here this kid is drawing this, and then underneath it, he had a another drawing of somebody fishing.
Evan Nappen 14:42
Well, the teacher and the school saw this drawing and felt threatened by it. Threatened by this drawing by a kid, of soldiers shooting at soldiers and a guy fishing. She didn’t just report it to the principal even of her ridiculous paranoia, but went to the police about it. The police followed up with her saying this is harassment. Harassment, I am not kidding, harassment. They went to the parents’ house and seized the parents’ guns. With a search warrant, I might add. Over a kid’s drawing in school of soldiers shooting at each other, and a guy fishing. I am not making this up. It so happened that the parents were New Jersey Fish and Game Instructors. They are the ones that teach Gun Safety when you get a hunting license in New Jersey. To youth, by the way, even. They took their guns, all over this cartoon, by this overreacting, politically correct teacher. It was outrageous.
Evan Nappen 16:02
So, I brought a Motion to Suppress that the warrant itself was wrongly issued and that there was not probable cause to issue this warrant. What was very interesting is that this motion went before another judge in the county, but the judge was the same level of judge in the same county that issued the warrant. So, we are talking about judges of equal power in the same county. This is extremely rare, but the judge found that the warrant was improperly issued and tossed out a warrant issued by another judge in the same county. So that was actually fascinating to see. We got all the guns returned, but it just was an outrage. We still have to deal with these claims in school. There was nothing intentionally a problem here whatsoever, but it doesn’t matter. Just drawing a picture of a gun.
Evan Nappen 17:11
You probably have heard of students that make finger guns. Remember when you made a gun out of your finger? You have your thumb up as the hammer and your pointer finger is a barrel. You can make it look like a gun, and you might play at recess. Play cops and robbers and make little guns out of your hand. Do you know that has led to going to the principal’s office and investigating whether there are guns in the house and whether this person is a threat. There are cases involving kids making their sandwich look like a gun because of how they bit the cheese sandwich so it had a barrel. Oh, sound the alarm! They made a sandwich gun. Insanity. Then the parents are wrapped up, and then are their firearms in the house? Then do they get seized? Is the child a threat and a danger to the school? Is there going to be some massacre at the school with a gun sandwich. I mean, it’s insanity.
Evan Nappen 18:21 Page – 5 – of 7
You may think, oh, come on, it’s ridiculous? No, we’ve seen it. We’ve seen it happen. Students wear shirts that advertise or promote a firearm. Just a free shirt dad may have gotten that says Federal Ammo or has a hunting scene on it. Oh, guns in the house. Guns. Yeah, depending on where you live. It is one thing if you are in an area where hunting is very much known and understood, but if you are in a more urban environment, you love to go hunting and escape to the woods and take your kids hunting, and they wear a hunting shirt to school, boom, it can kick the whole thing. The next thing you know, your guns are being seized with claims of threats and violence.
Evan Nappen 19:11
I had a case that really hit the news hard. A kid was 10 years old, and he posed with a new gun that his dad got him, a .22. The kid is in hunting camo, and he’s posed with the new gun. Now, this is all under the supervision of this father, and he took this picture. He was proud of his kid. Well, guess what? The kid had a Hunter Safety Course from the State of New Jersey. But that picture went online, and next thing you know, DYFS (Division of Youth and Family Services) is at his door to take the kid away. There is danger and a threat. How can a kid have a gun? All this, the whole bit. Luckily, I was able to get on the phone right when DYFS was there. They want to seize the father’s guns, and they want to take the kid away over this. It is outrageous. I said to the father, Put her on the phone with me now this social worker there.
Evan Nappen 20:09
So, the client right on the phone says, here, my attorney wants to talk to you. Here, he’ll talk to you. And you know what? She ran away! I am not kidding. I said, Where’s the person? What happened? He told her that his attorney was on the phone, and she ran away, ran away. So, we got them to totally back down from seizing the father’s guns over a legitimate picture of his son with a firearm, which he was approved by the state of New Jersey, as passing hunter safety and able to hunt. It didn’t matter. Be aware of the kids and what they post; what ends up circulating through school as to what is there; anything having to do with guns, pictures of guns on Facebook, and then it’s talked about in school. Then you are looking at possible gun seizure, etc. I have seen all these cases. I am not making it up. It’s crazy.
Evan Nappen 21:12
My brother, Louis, wrote an important Law Journal article on the privacy advantages of homeschooling. You can read this journal article, and it really should have had the opposite name. The privacy invasion of having your kids attend a public school. That would have been just as appropriate. But this is what happens. So, you have got to talk to your kids and make sure that they are discreet. It is a shame that we have to be that way. But if you live in, particularly in these anti-gun jurisdictions, with these folks that have no clue about firearms in the tradition of hunting and gun ownership, and target shooting, and all the great closeness you can have with your kids, as you target shoot, enjoy the outdoors and hunt, and use guns together, you can have big problems.
Evan Nappen 22:12
Discretion. They have to know not to talk about guns, not to have pictures of them because this can take off. The next thing you know, you are dealing with your home being searched and your guns being seized. Even if you are dragged into the principal’s office, where they want to do things that are going to Page – 6 – of 7
affect your kids record, put it in his record about causing a disruption or whatever nonsense they’re going to push, it can have this kind of dramatic effect. It is the times that we live in, and it’s a shame, but it’s true. I do not want to see any of you have that kind of problem. You need to talk to your kids, and make sure they understand.
Evan Nappen 22:57
For example, what is a resource officer in the school? A lot of schools have resource officers. Let me just say, I am pro law enforcement. It has nothing to do with that. But a resource officer is a law enforcement officer. Your kids need to know that what they are talking about, or what they are saying to a Resource Officer is the same as if they walked up to a law enforcement officer on the street and started telling him things. Kids will embellish. Kids will make stuff up. They want to look like tough kids or things to brag about whatever it is, and they start telling these things to a resource officer. Next thing you know, you are dragged into all this. We see this over and over. So you got to tell your kids, “Look, you don’t talk to the resource Officer. You talk to your parents, you talk to me and mom, all right”.
Evan Nappen 23:54
If they are ever called into the principal’s office about anything, they need to view the principal as a law enforcement situation. Even though they are not officially law enforcement, they need to immediately say, “I’m not going to say anything. I want to talk to my parents. I want my parents here”. Basically, your kids need to call for the parents to come in the way parents would immediately, if they are smart, ask for their lawyer to come in. I have seen the abuse that takes place. The problem is kids go to the principal’s office, and they are like, oh, the last thing they want is for mom and dad to find out about anything. But that is really wrong. You need to instill and have a trust with your kids to know that you are going to have their back, that you are going to stand with them. Later afterwards, when you are home, you may have to talk to them and whatever. But until that time when you are private and can speak with them, they have to know that you have their back and have them covered.
Evan Nappen 24:53
Otherwise, these things can escalate. They can escalate to where your rights are at stake. It’s your rights even to have your kids stay in your house, your rights to your firearms, your ability to keep, possess, purchase, and maintain your guns. These searches happen, and then the next thing you know (this happened in New Jersey), you have a magazine that holds 11 rounds instead of 10. That 11 round magazines is a felony in New Jersey. You are looking at 18 months in State Prison, and the whole thing escalated out of a drawing or a gun sandwich at school. Now you are dealing with a felony level charge against you where you are going to lose your gun rights, possibly your job, your career, the whole bit.
Evan Nappen 25:41
You may say, “Oh, it’s just, you know, just scary fearmongering?” No, I have seen it in over 30 years of practicing. I see what happens in the schools. You need to talk with your kids, and they need to be discreet. They need to understand the ramifications. These people are not on their side. They have agendas, and their agenda is not necessarily the agenda of the parents with the kids. That is the agenda that I care about. That parental relationship with your kids agenda. You need to instill this to help protect our gun rights as we deal with this incredible environment that we’re constantly fighting. Page – 7 – of 7
This is Evan Nappen, reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens.
Speaker 3 26:37
Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing Evan@gun.lawyer. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state.
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About The Host
Evan Nappen, Esq.
Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.
Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.
As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.
He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.
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