Episode 161-Don’t Get Scammed

Also Available On

Google Podcasts
TuneIn Podcasts
Castbox Podcasts
iHeartRadio Podcasts

Podcast Transcript

Gun Lawyer Episode 161


gun, new jersey, give, pay, gun owner, attendant, diamond, buy, jersey, ammo, payment, bb gun, state, gift, account, purchase, con, buyer, shoot, guns


Evan Nappen, Speaker 3

Evan Nappen 00:19

Hey, I’m Evan Nappen, and welcome to Gun Lawyer, the number one rated gun rights podcast in the world. And that’s by Feedspot, who rates such things. Today I want to share with my listeners some very important lessons, not just the gun owner fuckup of the week, which of course I have for you later, but I want to talk to you about avoiding certain scams. Scams that I’m going to explain to you in detail that are taking place, particularly over the internet, in like Facebook Marketplace, or GunBroker, etc., anytime, anywhere. You might be looking to sell something, and then they try this ploy on you. I want you to be aware of it, so that you don’t fall for it. Because now with holidays here, some of you may be looking to sell excess things you have, and you don’t want to get played by these con artists.

Evan Nappen 01:32

So, let me tell you about this cute little deal. I put an exercise machine, an old one that we wanted to get rid of, on Facebook Marketplace and Facebook marketplace spots are free. You can list stuff like that and have it set up for local pickup. So, you know, it gets somebody interested in it, somebody gets a good deal, and you get the room. You get the room. So, I put it up there, and I had a call, I think it was there, and it was 200 bucks. And lo and behold, I get a message from this individual who says, hey, I’m interested in your machine. Tell me about it. So, I give him the location, and I just explained things over messenger, you know, it’s like texting back and forth about it. Then they say, I’m going to have my cousin pick it up. They have a truck, but I want to pay you for it. So, do you have Zelle? Or do you have Pay Pal? Right, all the standard forms of internet payment. Now, number one, what I’d rather do is have them just come see it, and they can pay me cash. That way, if they like it, we’re good, and they just pay me on the spot.

Evan Nappen 03:15

But instead, they’re like, no, they want to pay online. First of all, the flag should go off if they’re insisting that they pay by way of internet payment. The other thing I said, first off, is send me your mobile phone so we can talk. So that I can explain more of the features and give you better directions or whatever we need to do. But they don’t send the phone number either. Instead, what I get is a message, and it comes via Messenger since this was on Facebook. Of course, it doesn’t have to be done through Messenger. They could pull the scam in any other place. So, it begins as follows. They say right at the beginning, they said okay, what’s your email to send the payment. So, you give your email address. Next thing you know, you get an email sent to your email that purports to be from Zelle or Pay Pal. It Page – 2 – of 7

has the header. It has the logo. It looks legit, like it’s actually from PayPal or Zelle, whichever one you were using. And here’s what it says, folks. It says, we have a problem crediting your $200.00 because the status of your account is not a business user which makes your account have limits. This amount seems to be above your limit.

Evan Nappen 05:11

To fully expand your account into a business account and deposit your funds now, here’s how to create a PayPal business account. Again, the same thing is said if it’s Zelle. How to do a Zelle business account. To expand it to a business account, contact your buyer to send an additional payment of $300 or $500, whatever the amount is they want to pick, into your account to expand the limit. As soon as this is done, we will fully credit you with the total of $500, in this case $200 plus $300. I’ll get a full credit, supposedly, of $500. Then it says, Note, this transaction can’t be reversed or cancelled until this process is completed. All transactions are monitored by our agents, and are also insured with a HARDCOVER INSURANCE POLICY, with a registered trademark after it. Can you believe this? So, what happens is you get this, and you’re like, what? They want the buyer to send more money. So, what you do is unsuspecting, they send this to the buyer, and the buyer says, here’s from the buyer, so-called buyer, I use PayPal a lot, and I know how it works. The payment of $200 that I sent to you has been deducted on my end. But, due to the fact that your account isn’t a business, that’s why we got instructions on what to do. And I’ve been through this before.

Evan Nappen 06:53

So, I’m dragging them out on this just to play it out and said, okay. And he said, I received the same email as you that your account isn’t a business, so you can’t get credited unless I’m required to send the additional $300 to expand your account limit. Then he asks, can I trust you that once I send the additional payment, you’ll immediately refund me the excess that I paid you? Can I trust you to do that? Then he sends questions. If I say yes, which is yeah, you can trust me to do that. Well, lo and behold, what happens? You get another email this time, again, not going through your PayPal account or not going through your Zelle account, an email to you that looks like it’s from Zelle or it looks like it’s from PayPal. It specifically says that they’ve received the additional money. So, how nice. It says, dear customer, you have received an additional payment of $300. Congratulations!!!!! Your PayPal account has been upgraded to a business account. You have received the additional payment, and your account will be fully credited with the total sum of $500. Your funds are now safe with us and for buyer’s safety, the additional payment has to be refunded (FIRST) for your account to be fully credited with total sum of $500. So, now they’re advising you by email to use your PayPal account to refund the $300 excess that the buyer supposedly paid and is trusting you to return.

Evan Nappen 08:59

Now, if you go and you make that payment, you’re never going to see that money again. This isn’t a real buyer. They’re trying to sucker you to send them money. And then, as a topper here, this guy writes, look, I’ve already been deducted in my account. Did you read and understand what you got from payment? Then he said, the money already left my account. Then over the Messenger chain, he sends the email. Notice the email that you get from PayPal isn’t coming from the buyer. The buyer has to send you the email where you’re supposed to send the money to. How nice. Then he says oh, family and friends type transfers. He wants us to be family and friends, so it’ll go through immediately. Yeah, well Page – 3 – of 7

with family and friends, you can’t retrieve the money that you send. That’s why he wants family and friends. If it was Zelle, you can’t get the money back at all if you send it without that. Any way they don’t even distinguish the way PayPal does.

Evan Nappen 10:04

So, now the gambit, the con, is to get you to return money that he’s trying to make believe that you paid in excess. All this con is, folks, is a pigeon drop in a modern high tech setting. It’s a classic pigeon drop. They immediately work from an angle of trying to go at your greed, or you’re the one being trusted with their money to guilt you into paying the excess. You see, these are classic short cons. Just like with the pigeon drop, when they get you to put your money up, when suddenly some treasure has been found, some briefcase full of money, some whatever the con is, the guy says, look, let me find out, but I’ll leave you with the money. But I need some security from you so that I know you’ll be here. Right. You figure that maybe you can take advantage of that guy, so you give them money. And of course, the briefcase is just full of newspaper, because they do the switch. These are the same ideas behind the con. And often they work from your greed. They try to work off that.

Evan Nappen 11:29

A classic, just to illustrate the principle, is where a person goes into a gas station to get gas. This works in New Jersey specifically because we still have gas attendants, and the gas attendants often have a roll of cash if somebody’s going to pay cash. Or they’re taking a credit card. So, a guy comes in, and he’s a little drunk, a little tipsy. He’s got a big diamond ring on his finger. He looks wealthy and has this big diamond ring. He’s flashing it in the attendant’s face. He asks where’s your bathroom? Where’s your bathroom, buddy? It’s over there. The guy gets out, goes to the bathroom, and comes back. I got a meeting I gotta get to. I gotta leave. He looks and sees that his diamond is no longer in his ring. So, he says to the gas station attendant. Look, I don’t know what happened to my diamond, but that diamond is worth $10,000. I gotta leave. Here’s my business card. So, he gives him the business card. If anybody finds my diamond, tell them I’ll give them a $1,000 reward for that diamond. It’s worth $10,000, but I’ll give them $1,000. Here’s my number. And he leaves.

Evan Nappen 12:58

About 15-20 minutes later, another guy comes into the gas station. He has to get gas, and he asks, where’s the bathroom? He goes to the bathroom. When he comes out, he says to the attendant, he goes, man, look what I found. Look at this. Holy crap. Look at this. He shows the diamond that was from the guy that you know was there before. Look at this diamond. So, now if the gas attendant is honest, he’ll say hey, look, this guy lost his diamond, and he’ll pay you $1,000 for that diamond. Now, if the guy is greedy, he might say, hey, I’ll buy that from you. But the idea is to entice the gas station attendant to actually buy it. Even if the gas station attendant says honestly, hey, this guy lost a diamond, and here’s his card. He goes, look I don’t have time for this. I don’t. I gotta run. But I’ll tell you what, man. If you want to return it to him, if you just give me $500, I’ll give you the diamond, and you can make $500, and I make $500. We both split it and that’s cool with me. So, the gas station attendant probably doesn’t even use his own money. He takes $500 bucks from his wad, and, of course, the diamond is just a piece of glass. You know, it’s fake. When you call the number on the card, you get a Rite Aid pharmacy, and they don’t know who you’re talking about. So, that’s the con. That’s a con. An old school con. Page – 4 – of 7

Evan Nappen 14:23

But now it’s a new school way of things that you might try to sell. Anytime you put an auction like on GunBroker, not even for a gun, and some guy is like, hey, can we end the auction early and can I pay you this way? Next thing you know there’s all this account business jazz with Zelle or whatever. Oh, you got to add this amount to that. Same game, folks. Don’t fall for it. You got to get the money. It’s got to appear in your account. And none of these games of paying more and returning more. None of that. Pay the money. You see the money in your account, now you’re paid. And that’s a straight transaction. You have got to be smart and watch out because these cons are out there.

Evan Nappen 15:12

Then you can have even further problems, of course, if they make other claims about what was sold, and what wasn’t. All these kinds of things. So, be careful. That’s my mission here to help you stay out of trouble. To not get conned or scammed. All that stuff that we’re constantly having to battle. Just on credit cards alone. I had to cancel my card because of fraudulent transactions. You don’t even know where they get the number from. The same with my wife. You have to be constantly vigilant.

Evan Nappen 15:56

Part of that vigilance is also about our rights. And, of course, the number one most active group protecting our rights with extreme vigilance is the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. I’m proud that they’re a sponsor of Gun Lawyer. You need to be a member. I know many of you are, and it’s really appreciated. We’re making a huge difference. The Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs is the NRA affiliate for New Jersey. They have a full-time paid lobbyist. They’re the ones litigating as we speak in the courts in Jersey, fighting the Carry Killer bill, the assault firearm ban, and the large capacity magazine ban and a multitude of other things. It’s Association that was able to get through the changes we did even without fighting. The Art of Fighting Without Fighting as Bruce Lee says in the awesome martial arts movie, Enter the Dragon. Fighting without fighting. Just great stuff, like where we got the Attorney General to change the No Serial Number (NSN) gun ban, and we got the changes to the training requirements. Really important things that are game changing for so many folks. Make sure that you are part of the solution by joining anjrpc.org and join our fight.

Evan Nappen 17:35

Additionally, I want to point out that one of the finest gun ranges in New Jersey, right in Central Jersey, right in Lakewood, New Jersey, is WeShoot. WeShoot is a great range and that’s where I got my personal certification for my carry. So did my son and my brother. They are tops. You need to go to WeShoot. Man, it is a great range. We are so fortunate to have this range right there in Central Jersey, so accessible, right off the Parkway. Easy peasy to get to. Great folks that treat everyone like family. They run great deals and great specials. They have just a fantastic community outreach and relationship. They are changing, not just the scene, if you will, on guns, but they’re reaching out to individuals who are first-time gun owners and first-time shooters. People who have come to the recognition, even anti-gunners, that they need a gun. They are changing people from non-gun owners into gun owners, into responsible, safe gun owners. You know everybody that we get that goes from a non-gun owner to a gun owner, who appreciates what a gun means in their own security and security for their family, that person is now a brother or sister in arms, in defense of the Second Amendment. Page – 5 – of 7

They have a vested interest in that right that you and I cherish. So, it’s critical that a place like WeShoot is there doing that. If you’re experienced, go there. They have outstanding advanced training with awesome instructors and a great facility. You will love WeShoot. I guarantee it. Go to weshootusa.com and check out the website. As soon as you do, there will be a pop up of yours truly talking about WeShoot. You’ll actually get to see a visual of me, so don’t be discouraged when that happens. That’s why I have a face for radio. But no, seriously, it’s a great place. Check out WeShoot and take advantage of having WeShoot right there in your backyard, able to provide a wonderful facility. They have great guns, ammo, and training.

Evan Nappen 20:33

Hey, you know, I get a lot of great letters, and I have a letter here. The fan of the show asked that it be from anonymous, and I have no problem with that. I want to protect his or her privacy. It says, Dear Evan, big fan of your show and the work that you do for the gun community. I have a question if you don’t mind me asking. I know Murphy enacted a draconian law that requires retailers to report every single ammo purchase, but the most baffling one is to also declare whoever has purchased 2000 rounds of ammo or more immediately to the NJ State Police. Does this also apply to multiple transactions, or just in one single purchase? Also, what’s the deal with purchasing ammo online? I thought that all ammo sellers, which most are out of state, now had to register with New Jersey State Police, thus is purchasing ammo online now illegal?

Evan Nappen 21:43

Okay, so let’s deal with this. Yes, New Jersey has ammo registration. There is a 2000 round threshold that if you, in one transaction, purchase 2000 rounds or more of handgun ammunition, so if you buy four (4) bricks of .22s at the same time, then the dealer is mandated to call the State Police and report you. They must do it, and they will investigate your purchase of bulk ammunition. Most of us would like to avoid an unnecessary State Police investigation into our firearm or ammunition purchases. You don’t want to do that. But it does not cover actions over multiple days. It’s 2000 rounds of handgun ammo at one shot, at one time. Now, of course, there’s a fee that’s charged by the way when you make your ammo purchase. But the actual reporting of bulk ammo for the police to investigate you is the 2000 round threshold. So, beware of that. Do not purchase more than 2000 rounds at one time. But if it’s over days or weeks, that’s not an issue. There is no accumulation like the way they do with stacking when it comes to cash and whether it has to be reported. Five thousand dollars and another $5,000, well they say that is stacking, and you have to report that $10,000. That’s not how it works with ammo purchases. Here, it’s 2,000 or more rounds at that one purchase.

Evan Nappen 23:36

As far as online sellers go, unless the online seller is out of New Jersey, and they’re actually doing the registration that’s required and you’re paying the fee and everything and doing it right, it’s arguably a problem. The out-of-state seller, who is selling and shipping ammunition into New Jersey can be held to violating New Jersey law for their failure to do the registration, electronic databasing, and the 2,000 plus round reporting, and all that jazz. Because they’re selling into this state, the state can then assert jurisdiction over them, which would then drag you into that whole mess. So, my advice is not to do online purchasing of ammo, unless Jersey law gets fully complied with for any ammo that a seller is selling that is coming into New Jersey. So, be aware of that. Page – 6 – of 7

Evan Nappen 24:50

Now, let’s talk about the gun owner fuckup of the week. And boy, I’ve seen this over and over again. The fuckup of the week is based on real clients with real problems that cause real issues where they had to pay me real money to fix it. I’m sure you’d like to avoid all those things. I mean, you don’t want to have to avoid paying me money. I won’t argue with you, but I think you’d want to avoid that. So, let’s learn from their mistakes. With all the gift giving we’re thinking about with the holidays, let me explain about the giving and gifting of guns in New Jersey. You cannot gift a gun to somebody without the proper paperwork being done. You cannot buy a gun, let’s say for your spouse, on your permit, and then just give it to your spouse. Your spouse has to have the permit in order for that gun to be gifted. People think they can do this, and they do it all the time.

Evan Nappen 26:16

Now, there are two jurisdictions that are at play. One is Federal, and this also helps to confuse things. Because if you read the Federal form, it says you can’t buy a gun for another person, except if you’re giving it as a gift. So, are you allowed to buy a gun under federal law if you’re going to give it as a gift? Yes, you are under Federal law, not state law. But if you’re in New Jersey and you want to gift a gun that you acquired under Federal law to give as a gift, you have to do the Jersey paperwork on it. This means if it’s between immediate family members, you don’t have to go through a dealer, but you have to do the pistol purchase permit on the handgun or the certificate of eligibility on the long arm. If you don’t do that, it’s an unlawful transfer, and you’re both in trouble. So, be very much aware of gifting guns.

Evan Nappen 27:20

The other issue with gifting guns is remembering what is a gun in New Jersey. Folks, BB guns and air guns are firearms in New Jersey. If you want to gift your kid that Daisy Red Ryder BB gun with the compass in the stock and the blah, blah, blah, as we’ve all watched Christmas story a million times, you cannot do that in New Jersey. If you buy that BB gun and give it to your son or daughter, that’s an unlawful transfer. You can’t gift them a gun. You can’t gift them an air gun. Now if you buy that air gun, it’s yours, and you can let them use it under your direct supervision like at the range. That’s okay. But you can’t give them the BB gun and say here this gun is yours. Keep it in your room. It’s the same as if you gave them an AR-15 and said keep it in your room, have fun. New Jersey sees no difference between that. Now is that stupid? Hell, yeah, it’s stupid. But it’s New Jersey. So, why are you surprised? I know you’re not surprised. What we don’t want to have is a surprise of where you unlawfully gifted a BB gun to your kids who possessed it outside your supervision, outside exemption, where now the transfer is unlawful and their use of it became a problem and their possession of it became a problem and everybody’s now in trouble over a damn BB gun. I’ve had those cases. So, folks, beware of gifting guns. Make sure you do it right.

Evan Nappen 29:17

And if you want to know how to do it, right, you can get my book New Jersey Gun Law – 25th Anniversary Edition. It has a whole chapter explaining gifting of guns and how to do the transfers between immediate family members. It’s all explained in there in a question and answer format. The book is over 500 pages with 120 topics. I know many of you have the book. Instead of gifting a gun, Page – 7 – of 7

give them my book, that’s a really great gift. You can use the book as a weapon anyway. It’s big enough, kids putting their heads with it. Just joking about that. But look, folks, beware of gifting guns. If you want to get my book to understand about gifting guns or to give the book itself, go to EvanNappen.com and order your copy today. You’ll have it well in time for the holidays. When they get that book, they can scan the QR code on the front and for free join the subscriber portal. The subscriber list for free and you have access to the previous updates. You will get immediate notice when the gun law changes so that the book stays current. It is the only current source of Jersey gun law. You’ll be able to know exactly what the story is, be first to know of it with a free update subscriber service for free, just because you bought the book and scanned the code. So, take advantage of this. It’s my calling. I wrote this for you guys. I know this stuff, and I wrote it for you. So, get it, use it, and stay protected. Stay safe during the holidays. This is Evan Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens.

Speaker 3 31:25

Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing Evan@gun.lawyer. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state.

Downloadable PDF Transcript

About The Host

Evan Nappen, Esq.

Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.

Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.

As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.

He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.

Email Evan Your Comments and Questions 

  • talkback@gun.lawyer

Join Evan’s InnerCircle

Here’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America. 

Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL. 

Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.  

By submitting this form, you are consenting to receive marketing emails from: . You can revoke your consent to receive emails at any time by using the SafeUnsubscribe® link, found at the bottom of every email. Emails are serviced by Constant Contact