Gun Lawyer Episode 100
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Evan Nappen, Speaker 3
Evan Nappen 00:00
Hi. I’m Evan Nappen, and welcome to Gun Lawyer. Well, folks, this is the 100th show. The 100th Gun Lawyer show. I’m very proud of the show. We’ve been able to do 100 shows and have such great, loyal and dedicated listeners such as yourself. Today’s show, the 100th show, is absolutely astounding, and it is hot off the press right now. What I’m talking about is the most insane gun bill ever proposed in New Jersey, and it is hands down this bill. Its implications are absolutely nuts. It’s a bill that has been put forward by two Democrats, and it’s the Assembly Bill 4502. You can read it for yourself. (https://www.njleg.state.nj.us/bill-search/2022/A4502) It was put forward by Assemblywoman (Mila M.) Jasey, who is district 27, Essex and Morris, and Assemblywoman (Ellen J. ) Park of Bergen in district 37.
Evan Nappen 01:42
This bill is what the most ridiculous, poorly thought out, bill that just demonstrates their absolute lack of understanding of the Second Amendment, our rights, the gun laws in New Jersey, and how any of this works. It will create such a mess. I can’t even quantify it. It’s so bad. Let me tell you what this bill will do, without a doubt, is absolutely protect mass murderers, terrorists and violent criminals. As a matter of fact, that’s what it should be called. The Mass Murderer, Terrorist and Violent Criminal Protection Act. Because this bill, and it says it right in the statement, is put forward because of the Bruen decision. The idea is to maximize and create the most number of so-called “sensitive places” where you are banned from possessing a handgun.
Evan Nappen 02:51
Now remember, not just carry, but even possession because we do not have a carry law. We have a possession law that you then get a carry license to not be unlawfully in possession. Their failure to understand the dynamics of how this law even works is absolutely expressed in this bill with perfection. To show the idiocy of these people, it is an outrage. What the bill does is it prohibits, even if you have a carry permit, from having a handgun in any of the following places. In a nutshell, and I’m going to go into detail, it includes synagogues, mosques and churches. We are talking about individuals that are lawful licensed persons that have permits to carry. Remember when you have a permit to carry from New Jersey, you have been certified that you are trained, you know how to shoot, and you know the law. Page – 2 – of 7
Evan Nappen 04:06
It is certification as a requirement to even get this license. You are vetted more thoroughly than police officers are in terms of the background check. And you’re approved by this not once but twice. By the chief law enforcement officer that you apply to and then by a Superior Court judge. This is what you go through to get to a carry license. These individuals are being prohibited from all these places that you will not believe how bad it is. Furthermore, keep in mind that permit holders include not just law-abiding average citizens, but also security guards. Armed security guards have carry permits, and they too are banned and barred. There’s no exemption for armed security guards. So, every one of these places that we’re going to discuss not only are law-abiding citizens banned from possession of handguns, but even armed security is banned from possession of handguns. Even a slew of law enforcement is banned from possessing handguns in these places. These places include, synagogues, mosques, churches, parks, playgrounds, recreational areas, public transportation, public gatherings, hospitals, nursing homes and similar facilities, youth sporting events, restaurants where alcohol is served, etc. It’s insanity.
Evan Nappen 06:00
Let’s take a good look at this bill, folks. First of all, it establishes as following, that any person who knowingly has in his possession a firearm in any of these venues is guilty of a Fourth-Degree crime, which is 18 months in state prison. A felony level offense. Whether the person possesses a valid permit to carry a firearm issued pursuant to (N.J.S. 2C:)58-4, which is the carry licensing statute, or not. This includes educational facilities, which has been a prohibition even before, but they have expanded the educational facilities now to include public or private daycare centers, or any other educational facility serving young children. Public or private, folks, is now included. It also includes the following: any part of a building or grounds of a private or publicly owned and operated entertainment facility within New Jersey, including but not limited to, so in other words, this is just what it includes, but it isn’t limited to this. A theater, a stadium, a museum, an arena, a racetrack, or other places where performances, concerts, exhibits, games, or contests are held.
Evan Nappen 07:53
Now let’s take a step back and see what’s prohibited. You cannot possess a firearm, even if you have a carry permit at this place. Do you know what is considered an entertainment facility? Many of the top ranges in New Jersey market themselves as a family entertainment facility. And do you know what goes on at these ranges? Shooting matches. Those are contests. Exhibits of firearms. Even in the New Jersey law where it talks about the exemption for transport. It’s the places of exhibition, and there are games and contests held. So, this bill eliminates the ability for shooting ranges to exist in New Jersey. Then it prohibits any part of building or grounds of a health care facility licensed by the Department of Health, including but again not limited to, a hospital, a nursing home, or similar residential facility or provider of services for the care, support, and treatment of individuals. A private doctor’s office if they’re licensed by the Department of Health. The doctor cannot even have it in his own office under this bill, if you’re licensed by the Department of Health.
Evan Nappen 09:29
Here’s another one, any part of building or grounds or portion of a building owned, leased or operated by a government entity, including but not limited to, polling places, courthouses, law enforcement Page – 3 – of 7
stations, and offices. Well, folks, courthouses. We are going to get back to courthouses because these dummies when they wrote this thing, didn’t exempt court attendants from being armed. So, they are prohibiting their own courts from being protected. They are such knuckleheads who write this. Any part of a building or grounds or building or portion thereof, owned and operated by a government entity, as it says, including courthouses. The grounds of a park or recreation facility, area or playground, owned or controlled by the state, county, or local government unit. So, park, recreation facility, or playground. Oh, a recreation facility like wildlife management areas? Oh boy. What about the ranges at wildlife management areas? No exemption, folks. Sorry, it doesn’t matter even if you’re licensed. Youth sports events, during and immediately preceding and following the event. So, any kind of youth sporting event, and it doesn’t matter – before, after or immediate. No protection allowed. No armed security even allowed. Doesn’t matter. Any publicly owned or leased library or museum.
Evan Nappen 11:38
Here’s a great one – any bar or restaurant where alcohol is served, and any other site or facility where alcohol is served for the consumption on the premises. So, you have a place of business exemption that doesn’t even require a carry permit for owners of businesses, such as bars and restaurants. Now, even the owner will not be exempt to have a firearm even with a permit, no less without, to protect their own place of business. Banned. Prohibited. Barred. Any site or facility where cannabis is sold for the consumption on the premises. So, New Jersey’s legal cannabis distribution centers that operate in violation of federal law, prohibit firearm protection, even armed security. Of course, we’re talking about a cash business there. It has to be a cash business. Sorry, no guns, no armed security, nothing at the cash, weed business. Sounds promising to a lot of bad guys, doesn’t it?
Evan Nappen 13:00
Any place of worship, including but not limited to a church, a mosque, or a synagogue primarily as a place of public or private worship on a permanent basis by a recognized and established religion. So, by name, you cannot protect your church, your mosque, or your synagogue. Now jeez, just think of all the attacks by terrorists on these facilities. Think of the individuals. They can’t even hire armed security because armed security have carry permits and no carry permit is valid at any of these places. There’s no exemption. They have to remain completely vulnerable to terrorists, murderers, and violent criminals. It is, on its face, racist. Do you want to talk about racism? There you have it. Make the minorities vulnerable. Make them vulnerable to attack. That’s what this bill does – de facto racism, particularly against some of the most harassed and targeted communities in America. And they are barred under this bill from having armed protection by individuals who in order to get the license have to be certified, trained and able to actually shoot with care, deliberation and accuracy. Trained in deadly force. All this is required to even get this carry and are vetted to the extreme and approved for this. They are barred and banned from being able to protect their houses of worship. It is an outrage. Everyone in the community should be outraged, and you should let these Democrats know that you’re not going to support the elimination of the right to keep and bear arms on the folks that needed most. This is all part of this bill.
Evan Nappen 15:43
It continues by the way. Any public transit vehicle or facility, which shall include any rail car, locomotive, motor vehicle, boat, ferry, other marine vehicles, or aircraft that provides passenger service to the Page – 4 – of 7
general public and any area, place, building, or other structure designed to provide rail passenger service, motorbus regular route service, paratransit service, motorbus charter service, air passenger service, or marine passenger service to the general public. So, Uber drivers are targets. No problem. Even with carry, you can’t carry. You are doing public transport here. Doesn’t matter. In any of these facilities, you become banned and barred. How do you even transport your gun to fly even with checking it in? There’s no exemption. It doesn’t matter unloaded or loaded. There’s no distinction in Jersey laws. Possession of the handgun, loaded or unloaded, it makes no difference here. The exemptions that we’ve traditionally relied upon, do not apply. They did not put all of these new banned and prohibited places in the exemptions.
Evan Nappen 17:04
This entire ban is covered by way of subsection e. of 39-5, and they failed to put subsection e. into all the exemptions that we have relied upon under 39-6e. We are going to discuss those exemptions that no longer apply when we come back.
Speaker 3 17:37
For over 30 years, Attorney Evan Nappen has seen what rotten laws due to good people. That’s why he’s dedicated his life to fighting for the rights of America’s gun owners. A fearsome courtroom litigator fighting for rights, justice and freedom. An unrelenting gun rights spokesman tearing away at anti-gun propaganda to expose the truth. Author of six best-selling books on gun rights, including Nappen on Gun Law, a bright orange gun law Bible that sits atop the desk of virtually every lawyer, police chief, firearms dealer, and savvy gun owner. That’s what made Evan Nappen America’s Gun Lawyer. Gun laws are designed to make you a criminal. Don’t become the innocent victim of a vicious anti-gun legal system. This is the guy you want on your side. Keep his name and number in your wallet and hope you never have to use it. But if you live, work, or travel with a firearm, the deck is already stacked against you. You can find him on the web at EvanNappen.com or follow the link on the Gun Lawyer resource page. Evan Nappen – America’s Gun Lawyer.
Speaker 3 18:51
You’re listening to Gun Lawyer with Attorney Evan Nappen. Available wherever you get your favorite podcast.
Evan Nappen 18:57
Welcome back to Gun Lawyer. I just want to mention that my law firm, Evan F. Nappen Attorney at Law PC, is looking for good attorneys that we want to hire. We are very busy in New Jersey as you can imagine, and it’s nonstop. New Jersey keeps piling it on. If you’re interested in defending the Second Amendment and want to have a rewarding career in Second Amendment law, get a hold of me. Go to my website EvanNappen.com. We’re looking for good people that believe in the cause.
Evan Nappen 19:45
Anyway, back here on (bill) 4502, the insanity continues. The insanity continues because first of all, if we look even at these exemptions and their implications, essentially, it’s banning all guns in public housing. Government owned – no exemptions period. It is eviscerating place of business and home exemptions that fall under any of these categories, if it exists. Now going further, and saying, Okay, Page – 5 – of 7
here’s all these specific prohibited places under subsection e. of 39-5, that’s the prohibition, then what you do is you have to look and see, well, are there any exemptions in the exemptions that are found under 39-6, as opposed to 39-5 where the prohibition is. If you don’t understand how New Jersey gun law works, you have the law that bans and prohibits under 39-5, and then we rely upon the 39-6 exemptions.
Evan Nappen 20:53
Well, they did not put these brand new, prohibited so-called “sensitive places” that come under subsection e. in any exemptions, folks. They didn’t touch them. So, this means that the place of business exemption under N.J.S. 2C:39-6e. does not include an exemption to the brand new 39-5 subsection e prohibitions. I know this sounds a little confusing, but this is critical. It’s vital because their failure to do this now means that the following are not exempt. For example, under subsection b. of 39-6, the exemptions currently and under this bill, only apply to a., b., and c. of 39-5 subsection e. Therefore, law enforcement officers employed by government agencies outside the State of New Jersey, while actually engaged in their official duties, are not exempt from any of those places – non exempted. Additionally, licensed firearm dealers are no longer exempted, because e. is still a prohibition. Particularly if you’re a firearm dealership that is at a range, you are prohibited. You are on the grounds where it’s prohibited, and there’s no exemption for your dealership under 39-6 exemptions, that dealers have traditionally relied upon.
Evan Nappen 22:39
Other parties that are not exempt under subsection c. The only exemptions given to these folks were b. and c. of 39-5, handguns and rifles and shotguns. They didn’t put these brand new e. subsections. So, guess what? Special Agents of the Division of Taxation are prohibited persons. State deputy conservation officers or full-time employees of Division in Parks and Forestry, having powers of arrest, are not exempt. So, tell me how you’re going to be in a park as an armed park ranger when parks are a specifically banned place and you’re not exempt? They just turned every park ranger and every state conservation officer into an unlawful possessor of their handgun with no exemption. This is these Democrats that have no clue about the gun laws and how they work. Just knee-jerk reaction and wanting to be rights takers. Taking freedom not defending freedom. Taking our rights not defending our rights.
Evan Nappen 23:56
Disenfranchising individuals of their Constitutional rights and making them victims. Victims of violent crimes, murderers and terrorists, not defenders. Stopping them from being defenders. But wait, there’s more. There’s more. Court attendants serving under appointment by the Sheriff of the county where the judge of any municipal court while an actual performance of their duties. Guess what? They’re not exempt to be in courthouses. There’s no subsection exemption. They’re turned into criminal possessors here and cannot even be in these places. A guard in the employ of any railway express company or bank building and loan savings while an actual duty. Well, if you’re a railway express, you’re not allowed on public transport or railway cars or locomotives. Good luck in that job. They just made you a prohibited person with no exemption. You’re done. Page – 6 – of 7
Evan Nappen 25:04
A member of a legally recognized military organization while under orders who are going to come from a prescribed place. So, the military is barred from these places. No exemption for them. Oh, well. Cannot even call out the National Guard there for them. Right? You’re screwed. A humane law enforcement officer of the NJ Society for Prevention of Cruelty to animals. Nope, you’re barred from those prohibited places. Hope you don’t have to go to a park or someplace where there’s animal cruelty, because in any of those places. You can’t be armed in that whole list of so-called “sensitive places”. No. Animal cruelty not covered.
Evan Nappen 25:49
Employees of a public utilities corporation while actually engaged in transportation of explosives. Oh, well, sorry, you’re going to have to transport those unarmed so terrorists can get them easily without your being able to fight and defend yourself and the explosives. Make them more easily available to terrorists so they can use them. Good. Right. So, they can you know, blow up synagogues and mosques and churches and stuff like that. You don’t want those explosives protected. Brilliant. A railway policeman. Great, except you can’t be on the railway. Except transit police officers at all times while in the State of New Jersey, etc. Nope, not anymore. No exemption for the prohibited places that include trains. Brilliant.
Evan Nappen 26:40
We’re not done. Campus Police Officers. Really? Prior to being, it says right here. They have as long as they went through PTC training except it’s a prohibited place. Now, of course, they could get permission. There is that exemption for them if they get permission, but they better get that written permission or they’re going to have problems. Then there’s Transit Police, except you’re not allowed to be in any type of public transportation as a transit cop. So, that should be fun. Parole officers, yep. Parole officers. They’re not exempted. So, if you have to go in public housing as a parole officer, you’re going in unarmed. Good luck with that. Or anywhere else your job takes you that’s any of those prohibited places. You’re not able to be armed. Human Services police officer, – nope, not exempted. They, too, are restricted. A person or employee who has a contract with government agents who supervises and transports prisoners, people charged with or convicted of offenses. Sorry, you can’t go to courthouses armed. You can’t go to government facilities like jails armed, sorry. You just get to transport all the bad guys disarmed. That sounds like a fun job.
Evan Nappen 28:08
So, what if it leads to escapes of prisoners and violent criminals? They’ll let them out anyway. So why make their escape any harder? Therefore, ban folks that are engaged in government contracting of transporting them. Housing Authority police officers. Sorry, you’re not allowed in housing authorities with your gun. Good luck being a Housing Authority police officer, not exempt to enter public housing with your gun. Brilliant. Probation officers? Nope. No longer exempt for their job going into all these places. Nope, sorry, no subsection e. for you. You are prohibited as well. So, you see what New Jersey has done is disenfranchise every permit holder. Disenfranchise their Second Amendment rights. All these exempted parties and persons that you would think the Government has an interest in having them armed. But no. This bill is so poorly written, so poorly thought out, that they even eat their own. New Jersey is famous for eating their own, and here’s a great example of it. Page – 7 – of 7
Evan Nappen 29:35
This bill is an outrage and wrong. Period. Licensed armed civilians. Licensed armed law enforcement. You’re licensed. You’re armed. You’re trained. We are talking about the good guys. Okay? I want the good guys to have guns. It’s the bad guys that we have to worry about, and this bill has no effect on bad guys, except for one thing. It empowers them. It gives them greater power. It makes the bad guys the winner. It gives the bad guys the edge. And instead, it turns good law-abiding citizens, trained and vetted, into victims who can no longer protect themselves or their families or do their jobs. It is an outrage.
Evan Nappen 30:42
You need to let your voice be heard. You need to belong as well to the Association of New Jersey Rifle and Pistol Clubs, ANJRPC. They have an excellent lobbyist, full time fighting these things. They send out alerts to members so you can respond immediately. If you belong to the ANJRPC, you’d already know what I’m talking about right here. We’ve gone into it in incredible depth. But you would know about this outrage, this insult to the Second Amendment by these morons that don’t know what they’re doing. That endanger the public with these laws. Literally put the public at danger and subject our houses of worship, and places where there are vulnerabilities to attack, to have no ability to have individuals to be able to respond to the threat and save lives. No, no. This will cause deaths, cause crime, cause terrorism. It’ll empower it. It’s outrageous. The most outrageous bill so far, because you never put anything past New Jersey, so far that has ever been proposed. Your voice needs to be heard on it. Join ANJRPC. Go to anjrpc.org. The least you can do is to join that group. There are plenty of other groups as well. Anything you do to help defend the Constitution is important. But as a minimum, you need to belong to your state organization. You personally will benefit by being on top of the threats and the dangers that these legislators impose as threats to our constitutional rights, and danger to our freedoms and danger to our ability to protect our loved ones. You need to know about these things. It’s another reason for this show. To be able to get the word out about how outrageous this is. The facts speak for themselves.
Evan Nappen 33:09
This is Evan Nappen reminding you that, particularly in this instance, folks, let’s just be clear, that gun laws do not protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. And boy, this bill does it in spades.
Speaker 3 33:28
Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing Evan@gun.lawyer. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state.